Twenty-seven generations of great-grandparents

A while back I posted that if you are somehow descended from Patrick Grehan Senior (1756 -1832) and Judith Grehan (neé Moore), then you are a fourth cousin of Anne Boleyn , and a fifth cousin of Elizabeth 1st. You can find that post here.  I hadn’t taken it any further, so I’m grateful to Nancy Beckley for pushing things back to Edward the First. I picked it up, and pushed it a bit further. It all seems very impressive until you do the maths. 27th great-grandparent means there are another 536 million other great-grandparents who aren’t kings or queens. Still it’s always nice having a saint in the family.

Saint Margaret is Scotland’s only royal saint, and Malcolm is the one in Macbeth. 

27th great grandparents William the Conqueror (1028–1087) and Matilda of Flanders (1031-1083), and also Saint Margaret and the Scottish king Malcolm III. 

26th great grandparents Henry I (1068 – 1135) and Matilda [originally christened Edith] of Scotland (c. 1080 – 1 May 1118),

25th great grandparents Geoffrey V (1113 – 1151) of Anjou and Matilda, (1102 – 1167)

24th great grandparents Henry II ( 1154 -1189) and Eleanor of Aquitaine (1122 -1204)

23rd great grandparents King John (1199-1216) Isabella of Angoulême (1188 – 1246)

22nd great grandparents Henry III (1207-1272)/Eleanor of Provence (1223 – 1291)

21st great grandparents: King Edward I (1239-1307)/Eleanor of Castile (1241 – 1290)

20th great grandparents:  Elizabeth of Rhuddlan (1282-1316)./ Humphrey de Bohun, (1276-1322) 4th Earl of Hereford (second husband)

19th great grandparents:  Lady Eleanor de Bohun (1304-1363)/James Butler (1305-1338), 1st Earl of Ormond

18th great grandparents:  James Butler (1331-1382), 2nd Earl of Ormond/Elizabeth Darcy (1332-1390)

17th  great grandparents: James Butler (1359-1405), 3rd Earl of Ormond/Anne Welles (1360 -1397)

16th  great grandparents:  Richard Butler (1395-1443), Sir Richard Butler of Polestown/ Catherine O’Reilly(1395-1420), Gildas O’Reilly, Lord of East Breifne

15th  great grandparents:  Edmund MacRichard Butler (1420-1464), The MacRichard of Ossory/ Catherine O’Carroll (?-1506)

14th  great grandparents:  Sir James Butler (1438 -1487),/Sabh Kavanagh (1440 -1508), Princess of Leinster, daughter of Donal Reagh Kavanagh MacMurrough, King of Leinster (1396-1476)

13th great grandparents:  Piers Butler (1467-1539), 8th Earl of Ormond/Margaret Fitzgerald (c.1473 -1542)

12th great grandparents:  Thomas Butler (?-1532)/wife not known

Rory O More

11th great grandparents:  Margaret Butler/Rory O’More (?-1556)

10th great grandparents:  Lewis O’More/wife not known

9th great grandparents:  Walter Moore/Alicia Elliott

8th great grandparents:  Patrick Moore/Joan O’Hely

7th great grandparents:  Edmund Moore/Elizabeth Graham

6th great grandparents:  James Moore (?-1741)/Mary Cullen

5th great grandparents:  Edward Moore (?-1787)/Jane Reynolds

4th great grandparents:  Judith Moore (1763-?)/Patrick Grehan (1758-1832)

3rd great grandparents:  Patrick Grehan (1791-1853)/Harriet Lescher (1811-1877)

2nd great grandparents:  Celia Mary Grehan(1838-1901)JohnRoche O’Bryen1810-1870

1st great grandparents: Ernest A O’Bryen 1865-1919/Gertrude Purssell 1873 -1950

If you’re related to Patrick Grehan Senior (1756 -1832) then you are a cousin to Anne Boleyn and Queen Elizabeth 1.

Anne Boleyn

I’ve avoided this one for a while, partly because it is out of period, and also partly because it is hard to work through. It does also appear to be slightly showy-offy, which it isn’t intended to be, well maybe a bit.

It does make it a bit slow going around the National Portrait Gallery, as well as getting a bit of a look when I chime up with “That’s another one of yours…”

Where I do think it helps, is in helping to set into context, how the Grehans would have felt about themselves. In a period when lineage, and status was very important to people; and when there was a strong emphasis on family backgrounds, then it is almost impossible to believe that there wasn’t talk of being the descendants of Irish kings, and of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy. It almost certainly colours some of the wedding choices in the C19th.

But a word of warning from Sir Bernard Burke, in the preface to the 1912 edition of Burke’s Irish Gentry.

“Of course, one knows that every Irishman is the descendant of countless kings, princes and other minor celebrities. One admits it, the thing is unquestionable. One knows, of course, also, that every family is the oldest in Co. Galway, or Co. Sligo, or somewhere else, and that, for some reason or other, every Irishman is the ” head ” of his family…”

Elizabeth I – The Armada portrait

However, it does appears that if you are somehow descended from Patrick Grehan Senior (1756 -1832) and Judith Grehan (nee Moore), [in our case, they are great,great,great,great, grandparents, so ha ha Danny Dyer] then you are a fourth cousin of Anne Boleyn [yes that one.], and a fifth cousin of Elizabeth 1st [yes that one, as well.], as well as descended from a number of Kings of Laois, and a fair smattering of Irish Earls.

The first major clue comes from Burke’s Landed Gentry in the 1871 edition. In the lineage of Patrick Grehan III (Patrick Grehan senior’s grandson) there is the following statement.

“(lineally descended from Lewis, the 4^th son of  Roger O’More (more commonly, referred to now as Rory O’More), of Leix, by Margaret, dau. and heiress of Thomas, 3^rd son of Pierce, 8^th Earl of Ormonde). Through this marriage with the co-heiress of Moore, Mr Grehan of Mount Plunkett quarters the arms of O’More of Leix, and Butler, Ormonde.”

Patrick Grehan III had his rights to the arms confirmed in June 1863, so it must have been accepted by the Ulster King of Arms.

Broken down in, I hope, the simplest way; Judith Grehan’s great-grandfather was Edmund Moore, and he, in his turn, was the great-grandson of Lewis More, the youngest son of Rory O’More, and Margaret Butler. So they are separated by seven generations.

Therefore, Judith Grehan is a fourth cousin of Anne Boleyn, seven times removed, and a fifth cousin of Elizabeth 1st six times removed. In order to work out your own relationship simply add on the right number of generations. In the case of my children, it is a fourth cousin of Anne Boleyn, fourteen times removed, and and a fifth cousin of Elizabeth 1st thirteen times removed.

Rather than expand this post too much, I have decided to link to two further posts, containing the workings-out.

How Margaret Butler and Anne Boleyn are related.

More-Butler-Grehan

There is also more detail on the More-O’Farrell post, though that is possibly the most confusing entry in any edition of Burke’s Landed Gentry ever.

 

Why the Grehans are quite posh.

Patrick Grehan III, Celia O’Bryen’s brother had inherited land in the parishes of Killinvoy and St Johns, barony of Athlone, county Roscommon via their grandmother Catherine Hodson. Their grandmother Judith Grehan (nee Moore) was the great, great, great, great, great grand-daughter of Rory O’More, and Margaret Butler, and therefore related to Anne Boleyn

Rory O’More is sometimes referred to as King of Leix (modern day Co.Laois), but is essentially a clan chieftain. But in Irish terms he is Gaelic nobility, Margaret Butler is the daughter of Piers Butler, the 8th Earl of Ormond. The Butlers are Old English aristocracy, i.e they were part of the Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland in the C12th.

Patrick’s entry in Burke’s Landed Gentry in 1871 reads as follows:

Patrick Grehan, esq., now of Mount Plunkett, is the son of the late Patrick Grehan, esq. of Dublin ( by Catherine his 1^st wife, dau. of George Meecham, esq., and co-heiress of her mother Catherine, dau. and eventual co-heiress of William Hodson, esq. of St John’s, co. Roscommon) and grandson of Patrick Grehan, esq. of Dublin who m. Judith, dau. and eventually co-heiress of Edward Moore, esq. of Mount Browne, co. Mayo (lineally descended from Lewis, the 4^th son of  Roger O’More, of Leix, by Margaret, dau. and heiress of Thomas, 3^rd son of Pierce, 8^th Earl of Ormonde). Through this marriage with the co-heiress of Moore, Mr Grehan of Mount Plunkett quarters the arms of O’More of Leix, and Butler, Ormonde. 

Arms–Or, a trefoil, slipped, vert, on a chief, sa., three escallops, of the first; quartering O’More of Leix, Butler of Ormonde, and Hodson of St. John’s–the family of Hodson of St. John’s, is one of considerable antiquity, and at the decease, in 1829, of the last male heir, Oliver Hodson, Esq., a moiety of the St. John’s estates devolved on the present Patrick Grehan [III], Esq.

Crests–A demi-lion, gu. gorged, with three escallops

Motto–Ne oubliex

Seat–Mount Plunkett, Licarrow, Roscommon

Their is a record of the confirmation of arms to Patrick Grehan III, in 1863

• National Library of Ireland: Arms of Grehan of Mount Plunkett, Co Roscommon, 1863. GO MS 179: 101
• National Library of Ireland:  Copy of confirmation of arms to Patrick Grehan (III), Mount Plunkett & St Johns, Co Roscommon, grandson of Patrick Grehan (Senior)of Dublin, merchant, 5 June 1863. GO MS 109: 13-14

To help the trail a bit:

Patrick Grehan Senior married Judith Moore, daughter of Edward  Moore. Edward Moore was a partner with Thady Grehan, Patrick’s father. In some sources, Thady is referred to as Edward’s drayman, they were brewers together. In which case, it is a pretty spectacular case of social mobility, pretty much, the van driver’s lad marrying the boss’s daughter.

Edward Moore’s father, James died in 1741. James Moore’s great grand father was Walter More.

Walter More’s father was Lewis (Lysagh) O’More,  one of four sons of  Rory O’More (Ruairi Caoch O’Mordha) who married Margaret Butler. Margaret was the daughter of Thomas Butler and granddaughter of Piers Butler, eighth earl of Ormond.

There is more detail in possibly one of the most complicated entries in Burke’s LG, for the More – O’Farrells of Balyna

 

 

Piers Butler, 8th Earl of Ormonde 1467 – 1539

Piers [Butler], 8th Earl of Ormonde later 1st Earl of Ossory

born c 1467, mar. c 1485 Lady Margaret FitzGerald, “the Great Countess” (d. 9 Aug 1542; bur. with her husband in the Church of St Canice, Kilkenny), 2nd dau. of Gerald [FitzGerald], 8th Earl of Kildare, by his first wife Alison FitzEustace, dau. by his second wife of Rowland [FitzEustace], 1st Baron Portlester

children

1. Sir James Butler, later 1st Viscount Thurles later 9th Earl of Ormonde and 2nd Earl of Ossory

2. Richard Butler, later 1st Viscount Mountgarret

3. Thomas Butler (d. 1532)

1. Lady Margaret Butler (d. betw. 9 Sep 1542 and 25 Jul 1551), mar. (1) Hon Thomas FitzGerald (dsp.), 2nd son of Maurice FitzThomas [FitzGerald], 9th Earl of Desmond, and (2) in or bef. 1533 as his first wife Barnaby [FitzPatrick], 1st Baron Upper Ossory, and had issue by her second husband

2. Lady Catherine Butler (d. 17 Mar 1552/3; bur. at Askeaton, co. Limerick), mar. (1) bef. 1526 Richard [Power], 1st Baron Le Power and Coroghmore, and (2) bef. Feb 1549/50 as his third wife James FitzJohn [FitzGerald], 13th Earl of Desmond, and had issue by her first husband

3. Lady Joan Butler, mar. James Butler, Lord of Dunboyne, co. Meath (d. 15 Jan 1538), and had issue

4. Lady Ellice Butler, mar. Gerald FitzJohn FitzGerald, of Dromana, Lord of the Decies (d. 1553), and had issue

5. Lady Ellinor Butler, mar. as his first wife Thomas [Butler], 1st Baron Caher, and had issue

6. Lady Ellen Butler (d. 2 Jul 1597; bur. in St Canice’s Cathedral, Kilkenny), mar. in or bef. 1533 Donogh [O’Brien], 2nd and 1st Earl of Thomond, and had issue

died 26 Aug 1539 (bur. in the Church of St Canice, Kilkenny)

created 23 Feb 1527/8 Earl of Ossory

suc. by son Sir James Butler,

Note

called “The Red Piers”; Sheriff of Kilkenny 1488/9; knighted bef. 1497; Seneschal of the Liberty of Tipperary 1505; Deputy to the 7th Earl of Ormonde for his Irish lands 1505 ‘ granted two parts of the prise of wines in Limerick 1506 ; Chief Governor of Ireland as Lord Deputy 1521/2-24; Lord Treasurer of Ireland 1524; induced by King Henry VIII, along with the coheirs of the 7th Earl of Ormonde, to resign their respective claims to the Earldom of Ormonde; Constable of Dungarvan Castle, co. Waterford 1527/8; Lord Deputy of Ireland 1528-29; granted the Irish estates of the 7th Earl of Ormonde’s coheirs 1537; restored to the Earldom of Ormonde 1537/8.